Retired Archbishop of the Methodist Church of Nigeria, Ayo Ladigbolu, in this interview with ROTIMI AGBOLUAJE, spoke on the need for a new constitution that recognises ethnic nationalities, promote inclusivity, and state police, among others.
 
Would you canvass for a rotational presidency as is currently being advocate and operating in Switzerland?
The terms of the rotational presidency in Switzerland are different from ours. We have a sort of a rotational presidency. It’s just for our leaders to sit down again and look at the 2014 Confab recommendations. The report is one of the most dispassionate and courageous efforts by Nigerians of all hues and colours to think of Nigeria. Let’s look at that document again page-by- page and recommendation-by-recommendation. We don’t need all these piecemeal reviews by the National Assembly. Most of the solutions to our problems are in the report. I wasn’t a delegate, but I followed everything that went on during the National Conference. I’ve studied it, we don’t have to waste energy by starting something new.

There is a debate on the parliamentary and presidential system of government. Which one are you for?
It’s not the system that matters; it’s the leadership and people who are running the affairs of the state. Even if we invent a new one, it’ll still take people to run it.  If the operators want to make it expensive, uncontrollable, and above the people, they will. So, whether it is a parliamentary or presidential system, as long as we have a government that is listening, responding, and accountable to the people, we’ll be okay.

Is democracy working in Nigeria?
To a large extent, it’s working. Some major elements of democracy as globally defined are being practiced in this country. Just recently, in my state of Oyo, we had an election into the local government councils, chairmen and councilors were elected to administer the third tier of government. That’s an element of democracy, giving the people the voice, and the power to elect their leaders
   
There is no system in the whole world that is absolutely perfect without any defect. Will you say communism is a perfect system? Will you say there are no flaws in socialism? But people who have embraced any form of government will still have some benefits accruing to them from that system. So, the mere fact that we still have a country called Nigeria, we still have our leadership elected on the basis of the kind of democracy we have adopted, and we have a future to look forward to, a future that I’m sure will bring necessary changes, rebirth, and re-evaluation; so why not celebrate?

But many people faulted the credibility of that local government election?
If you cast your mind to what I said earlier, there is nothing that is absolutely perfect. It’s not only in Nigeria or Africa, there is no system in the world that is absolutely perfect. Some elements that make democracy work are here. The local government election is one of them. It may not be perfect. Again, we have been able to elect leaders into various offices at the national level in line with the patterns and tenets of   democracy.
 
We had general elections last year in line with the Constitution and the Electoral Act. The right for the people to elect their leaders is part of democracy. By and large, we will discover our errors and correct the mistakes. As a country, we’ll get there and be at par with other countries that are practicing democracy. So, the unbroken 25 years of democracy is worth celebrating.

You witnessed many regimes in this country. Some people are of the view that during the regimes of the late General Sanni Abacha and General Ibrahim Babangida the country was far better than what we have now. Do you share that opinion?
I’ve been a keen observer in running the country in one way or the other, either quietly or loudly.  However, that kind of comparison is confusing. It’s confusing in the sense that we have to look at some indices. What are the indices and baseline for the comparison? Is it on the basis of poverty level, infrastructural development, or rate of employment? Were there greater employment opportunities during the administration of Babangida and others? Was security guaranteed? Were freedom of movement, freedom of speech, and all those elements of democracy better guaranteed under the administrations you mentioned?
 
It will take a real technical analysis rather than just a personal opinion. I’m not in a position at the moment to say whether they were better indices then than now. It must be noted that there are various peculiar issues and incidents associated with each administration. Against that background, one can’t begin to compare regimes on the basis of today.
   
Today, for example, petrol subsidy has been removed but wasn’t removed during the era of Babangida. The cost of living then was cheaper. How can one compare the past with now when we are talking of cost of living? For me, there are issues, factors, and indices that must be juxtaposed and placed on the table before one can say one regime was better or worse than the other.

If you meet the president, what would be your advice to him?
I will congratulate him and urge him to continue to be a listening president. He has been known to be a good listener. From personal experience, if you have issues to discuss with the president and you have an opportunity to sit with him, he will give you time to fully express all that’s on your mind. He won’t even interrupt but will allow you to finish before responding or commenting on whatever you have to say.
 
Coming from that background, I would urge him to keep that spirit alive. He may have a tighter time to do that, but he should remain the listening person, listening leader, and listening president that he has always been before assuming the position. If he could do that, I’m sure he would know more about the feelings, yearnings, and needs of Nigerians.  I’m sure God will give him the wisdom to respond in meeting the actual needs of the people.
 
I don’t know how one would have felt if another person had emerged as the president from the same part of the country where the immediate past president hails from. So, I think it is only fair and just that things worked out the way they worked out. Even though there were too many naysayers, then God was in control and remains in control. So, personally, I feel delighted and fulfilled with the emergence of the president.

You were part of a conference held in Ibadan recently where it was stated that Nigeria needed a rebirth?
The name for that organisation is National Rebirth Group. Our concern is the need for a new Nigeria. The Bible says if any man is in Christ, he is a new creation, old things have passed away, and all things have become new. We consider all the challenges that this nation has faced and all the opportunities that lie ahead of us. We need to review why we are called Nigerians. There are many questions agitating the mind. Are we truly Nigerians?  Did our forefathers expect Nigeria to be the way it is today? Can we return this nation to the 1951 situation where each of the states was autonomous and faithful, contributing to building the national government at the centre? That’s our main concern.
 
We must be ready to go back and rethink how Nigeria can be a country we can all be proud of. We need that kind of rebirth and thinking about the form of constitution we can operate. It must dawn on us that amendments here and there, left, right, and centre, and patching of the constitution will not take the country anywhere.
 
If you want to build, you must start afresh. We want Nigeria to start afresh. We want a country where the ethnic nationalities will have a sense of belonging, not where the regions have to go to the centre with cups in their hands to ask for money to run their affairs. Today, we are still just talking about state police.

Are you also in support of state police?
Yes. I’ve lived in countries where the state police function effectively to the advantage of the people. It had worked before in Nigeria, and it can still work. Though there were misuses and every good thing can be misused, it would only take us to make sure stricter and tighter controls are put in place. So, this country needs a rebirth and a rethinking of who we are.  One of the best steps to take is to go back into the zonal system where each region will contribute to the national purse.

Do you think there should be roles for traditional leaders in the Constitution of Nigeria?
Originally, traditional rulers were the owners of governance and the land before the British poked their noses into our affairs. The royal fathers   enjoyed the loyalty and devotion of their people. So, they were the government. The Europeans came and introduced the ‘Indirect Rule’. They took over the land and power and then left the kings where they are today. Thank God that they can’t remove them from their palaces. At the moment, the monarchs have advisory roles. Let’s just leave them in their honourable status of father of all in ensuring peace and security within their respective domains.